And I am only perservering for the sake of the rights of the taxpayers. The only "falsehoods" on this board have come from you, not to mention your founding fathers philosophy, which is a sham.

No, raw numbers themselves can't be spun. Conclusions based upon raw numbers can be spun. But raw numbers are just that, the actual numbers that represent what got spent, how many traveled, etc. And again, it's not a matter of my worshipping the NTD data. Everyone uses it, be they pro or anti. If only one side used it, then it could be argued that there is a bias, but that isn't the case. Both sides use it, the only difference is what they do with the data and how selective they are or aren't. --- Finally, you can type your fingers bloody for all I care. I was just trying to be nice and save you some typing, since your point has been made, conceeded to, and burried. But go ahead and type away, no skin off my nose. I'm only still here for one reason, to keep you from posting falsehoods!

Raw numbers can be spun any way you want them to (regardless of whose salaries are, or are not, paid by those providing the numbers). I observed no one telling anyone "what they think the numbers really mean." As far as the reports that do not favor what YOU want, there were other factors, observations, and research findings that were factored in. You can worship the NTD all you want to, ahblid, but NO one government agency that does anything for anyone is the "end all" for anything. As far as "wasting my breath," that "train" left the station a long time ago (pardon the pun). But it is the ONLY bottom line here that matters: The majority of people PAYING for this DON'T WANT IT! That WILL be repeated after each and every thing you post, so if you don't like it, TOUGH.

No, the NTD data is the "end all". It is the primary source of data. It is the raw, unaltered, unspun data. It is the data that anyone can look at without anyone's attempt to translate it into something that supports their side. No one is venturing any opinions in that data, no one has an agenda with that data (the employees get paid no matter what the numbers show), and it's not a report that reaches conclusions. ---- A report is someone's attempt at telling you what they think the numbers really mean. The NTD's data doesn't do that; they just provide the raw numbers. --- Finally, you can forget repeating that 2/3rds bit. I agree, 2/3rds don't want it. You're simply wasting your breath repeating that. The problem remains that 2/3rd's don't want it because they brought into the lies being told, just like you!

The NTD data contained information that BOTH sides of this are utilizing as source information for their reports, even though other sources of information and research findings included in those reports resulted in differing conclusions (for each side) as to overall workability. The NTD data is not the "end all" for any of this, despite your obsessive efforts to make it so. It was only PART of the picture. 2/3 of the voting population don't want our tax dollars paying for street cars and light rail in this area.

Here, let me put it more simply for you. You believe those reports that you've linked me to; the authors of those reports believe the NTD data as evidenced by their use of the data; therefore by accepting those reports you accept the NTD data.

But again, here's the problem, what you beleive to be the truth is based upon the data that I've presented. All of those reports use carefully selected bits & pieces of the NTD and spin it to produce the reports that you believe in. If you don't believe the raw, unspun data from the NTD, then you cannot believe your reports. The NTD data is the basis for those reports. ---- One cannot get a truthful & factual report if the base data is not valid or truthful. --- On the other hand one can easily take valid & truthful data and carefully spin it to produce false conclusions. --- Once again, even those whom you put your faith in tell you that the NTD data is valid! They cite it as their reference! You must make a choice; either the NTD data is valid and truthful or none of us really know the truth since the reports that you put your faith in are INVALID because they used the NTD data.

What I have been stating is the TRUTH for 2/3 of the voting population. WE are the ones paying the bills. Our vote should have been honored. Your side does not state the truths that we are concerned about and that are at the very heart of this entire endeavor. You believe only the data you provide to be the truth. 2/3 of the voting public do NOT. We will have to agree to disagree on what constitutes TRUTH.

Donzie, I'm not nitpicking the facts, you keep stating things that aren't true. That's what started this entire exchange in the first place, your false claims about the costs of light rail. ---- If you don't want rail, and refuse to actually open your eyes to learn the truth and enjoy paying higher taxes for buses, so be it. But don't try to win others over to your side by posting false information about rail.

Ahblid has friends in high places, although they don't have sense enough to keep from demolishing his credibility even more. Try Pepto Bismol, Carmen, take some basic spelling courses, and try watching trashy cartoons to satisfy your juvenile urges. Off topic tripe is grounds for getting permanently kicked off this board.