BTW, Luigi, I'm not a waste of your time, just as you aren't a waste of mine........for the most part, most of the time (talking about both of us with regard to the other). It's only a waste of time if we can't learn from the other. I read your words and listen to you, and check out things that I may not be sure of. Do you do the same, or are you already so set in your mind and emotions that you can't/won't?

Luigi: "lerv, i'm not going to waist my time trying to educate you about what you will refuse to accept...the transgressions of bush, chainey, rove and the other fifty or so extremists are very well documented...there is currently an international (including political forces within this nation) effort to indicte them for war crimes against humanity which WILL succeed before they are dead and burried" Luigi, I'm having a bit of difficulty finding anything that's not two years old or older on this subject, and truly active or relevant. What 50 or so extremists? I understand some of the accusations against Bush, Cheney, & Rumsfeld, although I disagree with most of them. The events of 9/11/2001 were unprecedented, so the reactions were emotional and some, possibly, a bit over the line. But, I'll compare it to a highly emotional story in the news this week.......the father that is accused of murdering the allegedly drunk young man that hit & killed his two sons RIGHT NEXT TO HIM!! He reacted in a way that some call murder and others call justified. Some of our national & governmental reactions to 9/11 could be considered in the same frame of mind, all while going further with regard to our protection in the future from further terrorist activities. And, you must remember that Congress agreed to the joint resolution authorizing the Iraq War, so you have to place blame on Congress as well as Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld, etc. And, waterboarding is NOTHING!! I understand why John McCain was so against it, but as a former POW that went through TRUE, horrific torture and interrogation, he should explain the extreme differences between enhanced interrogation and true torture. Let me ask you something.........if someone had kidnapped your child and you caught up with the kidnapper, who wouldn't tell you where your child is, wouldn't you do anything necessary to get that information from the kidnapper? I'm not suggesting doing anything to get information in general, but....

Luigi, I have done my research on the NRA, and with an open mind because I fully understand that not everybody personally or every organization is without troubles and faults, including myself. But, you can't say that the NRA leadership does not care about its membership base because you are assuming something you want to believe and not something that you can prove factually. By the way, I was a member of the NRA quite a number of years ago, and my name is not on the membership rolls, nor the names of either of my siblings, who were also members. So, names DO get removed from the membership base & numbers. I agree that the NRA is the primary lobby group for gun manufacturers, and don't think that I've ever heard that fact questioned. Luigi, I do research without bias, broadly, across the board of sources, then make up my own mind to what I feel is closest to the truth. I don't understand why so many have a problem with my copy and paste of facts, unless they prove that which you guys refuse to accept or believe. And, if you'll pay attention, my resources come from all across the spectrum. I make sure of that for several reasons.

lerv, i'm not going to waist my time trying to educate you about what you will refuse to accept...the transgressions of bush, chainey, rove and the other fifty or so extremists are very well documented...there is currently an international (including political forces within this nation) effort to indicte them for war crimes against humanity which WILL succeed before they are dead and burried....don't rely on me, do your own research like a big girl...on the NRA front, we'll...again, do some unbiased research and find the truth...the skinny is that the NRA leadership IS a very small group of extremely wealthy white men...the membership base DOES NOT COUNT to them...as rediculous as it sounds...it is true and truely rediculous...they just use you and encourage you to say that YOU are the NRA...it is total BS...fact: to inflate the membership numbers, they have never removed a name from the rolls even after death...they are the primary lobbyist organization for the gun manufacturing industry...DO YOUR RESEARCH...not your usual search cut and paste routine, i mean unbiased research.

Explain your position on the Constitution being destroyed during the Bush Administration, and how that was being done. I also disagree with you on that Administration being the undoing of the social and moral fabric of our society. That decline has been happening for quite a while, much of which I blame on the advances of our digital world and growing technology, violence in games and media, families no longer working to be "families" because they've got to have more than the Jones', etc. And, how can you not take my being a Constitutionalist seriously because of my NRA position? In the first place, I haven't declared a NRA position, but I HAVE declared the protection of our Second Amendment rights, and tried to correct the misconceptions regarding the NRA as a lobby group (with only a minimal fraction of the lobbying power of Hollywood). So, I guess you are right in stating that I'm pro NRA, but you're making it out to be something that it's not. Besides, the membership of the NRA is made up of so much more than just "wealthy white men". I'm currently not a member, but I'm fixing to change that status and join the huge number of WOMEN of all colors that are NRA members. I don't wrap myself in the flag. I fly it with dignity and honor, as it deserves, to honor my country and my patriotism and our freedoms and the men & women that have fought/fight for their protection.

the constitution was almost completely distroyed during the shrub regime...without a doubt, those eight years were the undoing of whatever social and moral fabric was left in our society in the modern day....as for you being a constitutionalist, i can't take that seriously with your pro NRA position...that small group of extremely wealthy white men who dupe all of you second amendment rights advocates into believing that YOU are the NRA, while scaring you into doing their bidding and wraping yourselves in the flag, is the epidomy of organized crime in America...ya see?

I don't want "progress" at the expense of destroying the Constitution and losing our rights. How is that wrong?

Thanks for explaining, because I know that you don't lump yourself in with Republican or Democrat, even though you seem to dislike/hate Republicans the most, and to the extreme. What's wrong with Conservative and being a Constitutionalist, as I am?

"we" is anyone who wants true progress, typically not a republican or democrat...but surely not a cog in the machine of status quo perpetuation.

Luigi, who's "we"?